What Do Normal People Say?

I spoke with two young people (age 21) about their opinions regarding our topic “Church-why bother”. Interesting they had similar responses as follows:
Question 1. What do you think about the word “Church”?
They said the word “church” was symbolic of a boring time in their youth and was now old-fashioned. They threw out the suggestion of changing the name “church” to something else would get it away from the negative image it has in their generation today.
Question 2. What do you say about Church?
Both had gone to church when they were young because their parents made them. Neither currently go and one person did say he would like to go again because he felt an empty space inside but didnt feel like church was relavent so he wouldn’t go. They also felt Sunday mornings, after Saturday nights, just were to early. When I asked when would be a good time they suggested possibly Sunday evenings.
Question 3. Tell me your feelings about what Church is or isn’t to you?
They both said they associated church with being lectured to about subjects they didn’t have enough knowledge on. Because of this they didn’t feel like waisting time going. They felt they would feel intimidated by those that do seem to understand they would just rather not go. When I asked them if they could relate to a TV series or movie (I shared Brandy’s comments from this past Sunday) where if they could watch the very beginning, and know and understand who the characters were, did they feel like they could better relate to the series or movie as it progressed? They both agreed it would make a big difference. That’s when I shared with them that this is very much the same as understanding the Bible and perhaps would that make a difference to them in understanding the bible? They both agreed that it probably would make a difference if they did understand but they still didn’t know why they would want to go to church to learn it.
They made the following comments that are also very noteworthy:
(A) The Church had never given them the assurance that Jesus really did live and was who He claimed to be. Consequently they don’t believe in Him and who He said He is. (B) The church is always talking about how the world needs to ask for forgiveness but they didn’t feel like they needed to be forgiven and wondered why we make this claim. (C) “Christianity” in history, particularly during the Crusades, is not looked upon very favorably and they wondered why we would want to associate with it today? (D) They asked me if I really believed a man could be swallowed up by a fish and then be spit back out alive. (E) Who the heck is Abraham?
This excercise and these comments dramatically confirmed to me how the traditional church has failed in the mission Christ left for it. We need to love this generation enough to do whatever it takes to right this ship, now!
-Al

why do i not think church is an important part of my life? because church is about a religion that i dont agree with. i think alot of people dont attend church because they feel that church is irrelevant to their life- and you cant really change that unless you change what the church believes

many people do not agree with complex and narrow theology of the christian church. the church is based on the idea that humans commit acts called sins (many of which such as homosexuality, sex outside of marriage etc do not consider wrong). These sins cause a divide between humans and god and only by saying a prayer (this varies on denomination) and “having a realtionship with jesus” one can be admitted into heaven. this is the belief of the church and many just dont believe that.

some may not believe in a god, or believe in a universal god, which is not limited to a small group of raiders called the hebrews. some many see the truth in many of jesus’ teachings but do not believe he was the son of god and thus feel they can have a relationship with god without attending a church or saying a special prayer “accepting jesus into their heart”

in short, church can try to be relevant and “cool”, you can “allow” people in your congregation that typical churches might frown on. you can have catchy songs and messages and everything modern. but the core message isnt changing. in fact sometimes it feels like the church tries to cover what it really believes behind a “cool new format”

its not that making church relevant isn’t important- it is. especially if the church wants to stay with it for younger persons in their religion. but making the church “cool” needs to calculated. making a church “cool” with videos, a website and forums may attract new people- people that arent “christian” but are they really going to suddenly change their worldview just cause some guy on sunday told them to? i wouldnt.

i would attend a “church” if sundays meant dicussing spiritual matters, i mean really discussing. not let people in a semi-circle talk for 5 minutes and then remind them what the “right” answer is. i dont want a church that tells me the answers. which means a church not associated with a demonation, or a religion for that matter. because i am not going to presume that i know all the answers, i am not that arrogant. so i need a worldview that is about searching- seeking the answers, not telling me jesus died on the cross and waiting for me to fall to my knees crying.

i have done church for 18 years. i know what it believes and i know how i works. i taught in church. so im not misinformed- and i dont think most people who dont attend church are either. i think those who dont attend do so because they dont subscribe to the religion that is taught at a christian church (or maybe they do but they arent welcome).

-rebeccajean

sorry its so long :)
kudos if you actually read it

this is why people i know dont attend church:

-gays are rarely tolerated much less accepted

-the church is typically full of bunch of fundamental republicans that deny science and try to legislate their religion on others

-the church has a long history of hating a discriminating minorities, such as women, African-Americans, Irish, and LGBT persons

-they dont believe that one religion can have all the answers

-they arent sure if there is a god

-if bush is going to heaven, they dont wanna go there. if Ghandi is going to hell god cant be that just

-christian condemn sex, alcohol, pot and many other things they dont feel is wrong

-christian friends are more sexually promiscuous than they are

-christians dont seem to follow their core moral beliefs

Rebecca,

you shouldn’t be posting here.. .didn’t you see it says at the top - what do “NORMAL” people say :)

seriously.. .thanks for offering your thoughts…

Jeff

Rebeccajean,
I’m a crazy hippie from the late 60’s so I can relate a little to how your thinking. Generations are different but that independent spirit still roams in us.
I agree, in parts, with your comments because I also think the church, as a whole, has failed to portray who and what Jesus really came as, and for whom he came. The church hasn’t done a very good job with telling his story or that of God’s for that matter. So your criticism, while harse, is worth hearing. I would, however, challenge you to look beyond church and take a look at the people who are trying to get right with the true message and then judge God and Jesus and the body of believers that follow the way. The big difference, I found, was that the believers, verse the Church, know we aren’t perfect, and acknowledge that Jesus himself told us not to judge others but to love each other as we would want others to love us. We also believe, and put into practice, the point Jesus made about not coming to be served, but to serve others.
What I hope, for you, is that you will see that the real body of believers church is trying to live by a code of ethics and morals that’s very different from what the world has seen of the church in the past. I’d like to invite you to come and join us for a few Sundays, as get a little glimps at this different way. Maybe you’ll see something that isn’t to far off from where you sound like you are in your spiritual walk.
I hope you’ll consider my invitation and come join us for a cup of coffee and some discussion. I’d love to get to know a new generation hippie. Come visit us and I’ll introduce you to a bunch of imperfect people, republican, democrat, independent, green, white black, hispanic, asian, middle eastern, far eastern, short eastern, straight, gay, single, married, old, young, long time and short time believers in our church, that are my friends and with whom we are growing spiritually together. We aren’t perfect, we’re just trying to get back to the way Jesus told us to live life here. Where your at sounds a lot like where we have been ourselve so I hope you’ll be as open-minded as you sound, and come join a bunch of other open-minded people, just trying to figure this life out.
We meet at 9AM & 10:45AM. Come look me up.
-Al

thanks for responding to me. hippies are quite cool people and growing up in the 60’s, WOW! i wish my generation was more politically attuned and ready to protest for their beliefs.

im up for discussion, but although i am very open minded, i do have some sense of what i believe. after growing up in the church, i have a very good understanding on what the basis of christianity is- and i respectly disagree.

i think this kind of has made me a “problem” in alot of christian’s eyes. there is a pattern that has developed and i think it is quite funny.

first, when they see me at a spiritual event, they may assume i am a believer and then get upset when they hear me speak. they wonder what type of believer i am, talking like that.

second, they find out i do not profess to be a christian, which many times lights a fire under their… butt to get me “saved”. then come the “when i was your age i was just like you” and “just wait you will see how you need jesus”. they might listen to my beliefs but they always tend to leave the discussion with “she isn’t ready to accept what she knows is truth”.

third, is what i would probably call the tolerating stage, christians typically are still friendly to me, and still try to “help me” (and convert me). but the key word here is tolerate. im not accepted for my beliefs, in fact i am often told, “just wait you will see the light”. its like once they find im not part of their club or interested in joining im just another person to them. i dont fit their categories, i reject christianity on a theological level because of my understanding of it, not because i just dont know.

im always willing to talk about my spirituality, and i refuse to accept that any one person has all the answers to life’s questions. but i have become very annoyed with the christians that cant accept me for who i am because i dont fit their unhappy, depressed, lost soul stereotype.

-rebeccajean

ps. i wrote a blog a lil bit ago about this topic check it out:

http://rebeccajeany.blogspot.com/2008/02/basic-p...

Hi Rebeccajean,
So your an independent spirit eh? Good. I’ve never did like being cast in a pre-determined role by others either. I just try my best not to judge. I’m not perfect, mind you, at it but I try not to judge. One verse in the bible that has always stuck with me says “don’t judge others until you have walked a mile in their sandels”. It’s good advice and something we all try to live by. But when we fail to practice it we look like hypocrites and you young people today see it right a way. So I’ll admit that in many cases your sketicisim is justified. That’s something even Jesus warned us about and when your wrong, your wrong. It’s hard for people, who are trying not be hypocritical, to admit it when they slip. I’ll admit that I’m that way. Just ask my wife and kids…They’ll tell you I can be extremely hypocritical. But I’m trying.
You have a fire that burns in you and that’s what makes you, you. (don’t know if that is grammerically correct) I think I know a little of how you feel and let me just say that it really doesn’t matter what others say about you. But that often they are trying to give you advice becuase they love you. I know it appears to be all christianese at times but its not always that way so try and take it for the love. What really does matter is what God says and that’s what you need to figure out and then live by and I need to do the same. That’s what I like to think other believers are also challenged by and trying to live by. Sometimes we understand and can make changes in our lives and then sometimes we miss the boat and we end up looking like hypocrits to the world. But what I have learned from Christ’s teachings, is that we all need to keep trying. I hope that at least makes some sense???
But please don’t hold onto any bitterness towards others trying and give you advise. Knowing what we both seem to agree upon, I think its how people try to show their love in their own way. Just as you have this beautiful independent spirit, so do many others. Theirs may look different from yours, and they may value life’s lessons different from you, but don’t doubt they are independent as well. And as an independent spirit that wants that respect and freedom, you need to also respect their independence and freedom as well. Let me be the first to say that you don’t have to agree with them, but atleast respect them. then They will have to respect you just the same. Kapish? (I don’t know if that;s spelled right but I think you get my drift). My Mom used to always say “you catch more flys with honey than you do with vinegar”. She was a wise and gentile woman. One of a kind. A hippie, in her own, ahead of her’s and my time. I eventually learned that this little saying is really very good advice. You see it works both ways, if you know what I am trying to say. I’m big in seeing the good in people rather than the bad. Treat others as yo uwaould want them to treat you. That is God’s law for peace and honesty in relationships and it makes for a much happier world for you, me, and everyone else to live in. Yu have to draw a line and say “I choose to live by it regardless of what others choose”. I’m trying and I hope you will to. Being a hippie means you try and live by what is the right way no matter what others say. The original Hippies were actually Jesus freaks. Did you know that?
So I hope you don’t consider all of us as unhappy, depressed, lost stereotype believers. I’d like to make you a deal. If you don’t stereotype me, I promise I wont stereotype you. What do you say? Can we keep talking?
-Al

its not my place, its not my job. check out the blog i referenced above. as much as i try to fight for my freedom to be able to live my own life without judgment from others and without them legislating my life. i try my best to keep the communication lines open. but ill admit, im human and sometimes i avoid interaction because i want to avoid more discrimination, confrontation and heartache.

-rebeccajean

ps. looking over this blog and there are two main writers, myself and Al Figone. why isnt there more people that want to talk about what “normal” people think about church and religion in general?

Thought I would enter thoughts jotted down on ‘the wall’ Sunday morning under the question - Church Why Bother - tell us what you really think (-in case you missed them):

To remind me how much of an impact God has on my life.

Church is great and all - but there is no God.

People are so friendly on Sundays…but not even there for me during the week.

I found a group of people who encourage me to share myself.

Church is a stepping stone to God, to give me peace when I’m down.

1st - The Vision 2nd - The dycipline 3rd - My friends

To remind me I’m not the only one who believes in You.

And the winner is….

  Because I get donuts!

Thanks all for sharing

It appears to me like this Sunday’s presentation was yet another episode of the Christians suck series. How does this encourage people to get closer to God?

I guess you take what you want from the series. However, what I took, especially as I listened to Keith share, was that church needs to become more of a safe place where people can ask questions, people can have discussions, people can listen and be listened to.

The intent of the presentation wasn’t geared to encourage us to get closer to God. It was to get us thinking about what we (as Christians and the church) do, usually unintentionally, to discourage others to even take that first step to even be interested in having that relationship with God. It was to get me thinking about what I do that may hinder someone else in their search…do I encourage people to ask questions, do I make people feel welcome and included, am I the same person on Sunday that I am during the week? Just a few of the things I asked myself yesterday.

Does this encourage me….in a way, yes. Because it challenges me not to be an obstacle…

as a “normal” person, i am somewhat confused by what was attempt this week and on sunday. the reason i dont regularly attend church is because i dont share the same beliefs as the church. thats the big mystery. its not some huge secret the church has to discover, “how to appeal to normal people”.

people attend church because they believe in the same basic beliefs of the Christian faith. these shared beliefs are taught, discussed and debated in a church community. normal people may visit a church, out of guilt, obligation or for personal reasons, but because they dont share those common beliefs there is no reason for them to stay. the church is not going to encourage them in their spiritual walk- the church is trying to proselytize them- (to their religion).

so i don’t get the journey’s point here- are they trying to be more “open” and less dogmatic? (which would most likely cause the “christians” to leave)

or are they just superficially trying to seem more “discussing minded” and “open” to everyone- while still believing if you dont say a prayer you go to hell. (which might encourage normal people to attend once, but after that they will most likely see past the church babble, see the core beliefs- which they disagree with- and leave.)

the journey is a church of a religion, a very exclusive dogmatic religion. to me it just looks like another church trying to hide in sheep’s clothing to snatch some unbelievers.

-rebeccajean

as much as you can say that everyone is “normal”, we arent. each of us is very different and that effects community places such as the journey. the journey is a church, so while it may be more open that other churches, it still holds certain beliefs.

i think it is important to distinguish between two groups of people:
those that believe relatively the christian faith and
those that dont believe in the christian foundations but still have questions spiritually.

the first group i think needs to be supported at the journey and i think is to some degree, but striving to improve. the second group i dont think is as welcome. that might not be a bad thing, but i think it needs to be brought up.

people who dont believe jesus was the son of god, who dont believe that god is exclusive to the jews and christianity etc etc. are not going to feel welcome on sunday unless they are there to recant their own beliefs. im not trying to change the church but i think it is important to point out something i think alot of christians are missing.

if we had a discussion about jesus, (truly open forum) i dont think anyone would want me to talk about how jesus has been viewed differently throughout time by different churches, from the coptic church, to the muslims, to the reforms in the catholic church. i dont think the church would feel uplifted by my view that jesus was purely human.

although i fully understand the christian principles and belief system i believe something different, which means that i am welcome into the church service, but i am not encouraged to participate because i dont profess to be a christian and am not tryin to become one.

maybe im wrong. but i dont think i am. the point of a church is to support those already in the religion and as well as new converts. its not the debate and let non-believers question the framework of your religion and run your service.

-rebeccajean

I actually agree with what Rebecca said in “a response”. She “nailed it” on several counts… We actually cause confusion when we don’t appear to be true to our beliefs in how we follow Jesus. Lets just admit our differences with people… find some humor in it, and stay true to our calling as followers of Christ without feeling pressured to conform to some other world view. It might be like me trying to be street hip by wearing baggy shorts, talking gangsta talk, and making funny gestures with my hands.

The Daytona 500. I went to church and found people talking about why others do or do not go to church. Kind of boring to me. I felt it was a waste of my time. This is how I have been feeling for some time now. I’m not the only one either. I guess this is just how it goes huh? Oh well, there are other places to get better worship. The question should be,” How do you find another church, after calling one a home for so long”. This is what we are trying to figure out in our family. The Journey just isn’t cutting the mustard like it used to. Hmmm makes me kind of wonder why? This is going to be hard for me and my wife but I’m sure we will manage. Who knows, we might just put up with it like we have in the past and continue to come to The Journey and not grow. I know, We will go to our Thursday night couples group, we learn more about Christ there. Ok, back to life as God has me living it.

I have been delighted over the past two weeks of this series Why Bother.

The first week - listening to people talk about the meaning / value they find in being part of a community of faith… and then my chance to teach through what I see from Ephesians 5 about Jesus loving the Church from Ephesians 4:11-16 about the picture of giving gifts to the church and have each member contributing and building up the body.

I was also delighted to we took an entire Sunday morning to listen to the voice of the people who don’t bother with church. This has been a DNA focus from the beginning of The Journey and will continue to be. Our analogy of one hand in and one hand out… doesn’t make sense if we aren’t interested in knowing who we are trying to reach a hand out to (and what they think about that hand).

Frank - I’m sorry you feel it was a “waste of your time” and that the Journey hasn’t been “cutting the mustard” like it used to… but I’m not sorry for repeatedly, obsessively, and obediently following the direction God gave me when we started The Journey to care about and stay focused on those who are interested in faith but not calling themselves Christ followers. The concept of listening to the people the great commission Matthew 28 has called us to reach makes sense to me. The heart of Christ is His mission to seek and save people far from him (Luke 15). Caring about these people IS the heart of Christ.

I am open to other methods of keeping that focus clear in our community of faith if you have ideas. Personally, the challenge to go ask others the question about “Church: why bother?” helped me have some great faith conversations last week. I believe The Journey is being obedient to our calling as a church and that means more to me than anything else.

I have to agree with Jim and Frank. I felt frustrated leaving church yet again. The only thing I got out of this Sunday and that was I can sleep in this coming Sunday. I wont put myself through a service like that again.

I don’t believe Sundays should be all about what Christians do wrong, maybe I’m just outdated but I still would like to hear some teaching. Trying to make church such a place that meets everyones needs is impossible. Sunday mornings have become a sales pitch and I’m not sold nor will I ever be. Maybe I’m only one of a couple of people who feel this way, but it’s high time to say I really feel that the Journey has lost its way and isn’t quit sure what to do. That being said, these are my thoughts and if people love this format then good for them.

Not long ago we brought some friends with us to church, I didn’t want to but my wife did. One friend was normal with no desire to go to church, but he came. We asked him what he thought, he said
“it was entertaining”

I’m at a crossroad of what to do, and like Frank I believe it’s time to start exploring options and visiting some other churches.

Makes me sad

For me, Sunday left me feeling discouraged and defensive by hearing all the things that Christians aren’t. In addition to listening and reflecting on the video of how non-church people perceive Christians and church, I wonder if also including God’s intentions for how we should act would be beneficial. Jeff brought up the scripture “Luke 5.” This scripture discusses God’s persistence and love for all people. If this was discussed I think it would help me see more of God’s heart on the issue, feel less defensive, and it would inadvertently bring up “how not to act.” Christians are sinful- but God isn’t and I want to be reminded of His plan for how we should treat others.

For me, I did not go to church in High School because I did not click with the girls in the group. I felt rejected and unloved by them and in return- by God. I was not strong in my faith and thought the way people reacted to me mirrored the way God thought of me. Much against my parents’ wishes, I didn’t go to church for about 3 years. I still considered myself a Christian even though I rarely prayed and didn’t think God REALLY loved me or I Him. When I graduated from High School I knew something was missing in my life and God was working on my lack of forgiveness and bitterness. When I finally went back to church I jumped in head first. After one week of attending, I decided to go on a week long trip with the college group. I knew no one. One of the girls, Jenn Minor, came up and talked to me after church. I asked her if she was going on the trip. She said no, but she would be happy to wait with me for an hour until the bus left and introduce me to people going. This kindness and love is what I hope more people experience in the church. I believe this is the kind of sacrifice God intends of His people.

Please show some class and change your picture…That is inappropriate.

A lot of the posts here reflect a long-standing disconnect at the Journey:

Are we:
1 - A ‘cool’ church with a hip & modern spin on the traditional church experience (Sunday sermon + worship).
2 - A church specifically focused on people or activities not being served by traditional church experience (while still being hip and modern), and therefore willing to question/rethink all those traditional practices.
3 - Both of the above.

I’ve become strongly convinced that the Journey’s biggest challenge has been that we’re trying to be #3, and it’s just not possible. We are now made up of people who are in both camps, and constantly feeling tension as a result.

Being part of a church in the #2 category is far more interesting to me. Like Keith, I really appreciate the live discussion (I like teaching too, but I can also get that from things like the Mars Hill podcast), and I definitely think much of the modern ‘church’ experience is a human institution which, while not necessarily bad, is also not the ultimate ideal expression of what God wants us to do.

I have nothing against churches in the #1 category. I’m happy to know that they exist, but also I feel there are plenty of them, and I don’t feel any particular passion to help lead one. If the Journey wants to be that church, I’ll probably still come, but I’ll bolt the second I have the opportunity to go do something more like #2.

I think that the big problem with this series is that is lays a bunch of shame on people who are just trying to connect with God. I didn’t go this past Sunday because I have talked to Jeff in the past about how I don’t like Christians being made fun of, put down etc., and figured that this past Sunday would be a repeat of this. Things like Christians have done this in the past, or do this sometimes, or look down on others, or are judgemental and so people are turned away from church. This, I feel is shame. Shame doesn’t give us something to change or repent of, just we are bad people in general. Shame is what the Pharisees caused when they added more and more to the law that people couldn’t bear. Shame is what happens when leaders try to add things that God never intended. Guilt is good. It is specific. It has an answer. It allows me to agree that, yes, I hit someone over the head with a Bible yesterday, or I yelled at my dog. Sorry God, forgive me. Thankyou for Your grace that covers my sin. Then I can go on, without condemnation, free to recieve the love of God, and free to give His love. Shame keeps us from God. It also puts walls between us and others. And it comes from the pit of hell. I too am asking the question, “Do I want to be in a place where shame is freely given to Christians in order to win the favor of those who aren’t? Do I want this for my family? ”

I’m so disheartened to hear people ever express that they feel shamed or attacked at the Journey. Christianity incorporates at it’s core the idea that we are imperfect, and will always fall short of the glory of God. What I often see as honest critique on the occasional behavior of some Christians is viewed by others as attacks on Christianity or Christians as a whole.

To Linda’s point above, I have never felt ‘shamed’ at the Journey. I’ve always felt (whether I agreed with it or not) that any criticism offered was intended to be in a positive vein. That someone would feel ashamed by that is just so discouraging.

I’ve often had a hard time feeling like I truly ‘fit’ in church. Hearing people say that they think one of the Journey’s biggest problems is that it’s somehow too hard on Christians, reinforces that feeling. It makes me feel like there’s the ‘church bubble’ Christians, and then me and the rest of the world, with no common ground possible in between.

Where to start. Ok, bullet points.

• This past Sunday, having a service dedicated ENTIRELY to helping “us Christians” “understand” all the “non-church” people made me wonder if I had somehow overslept and was still dreaming. I have only been a “church person” for a little over a year, I think I remember what my beliefs and hangups were—why the heck was I being lectured to about building empathy for “non-church” people? The Journey is supposed to be “seeker friendly” so why assume everyone in the audience is a regular churchgoer and can’t relate to non-churchgoers???

• The bubble. Shockingly, when discussing this in our groups-of-no-less-than-10-but-no-more-than-12, I got the impression that the people around me honestly DIDN’T relate to the non-church guy up on the couch. What?? The diversity of the Journey is one of my favorite things about it, and I didn’t assume it would be completely full of seekers and former seekers, but to have almost NO ONE be able to relate to the guy except me? Now that was just bizarre and yes I felt very much like an outsider.

*Nonetheless, I love the Journey, and I love God, and I know that the Journey is led by people who love God. And that overriding focus on God is what keeps me coming back to the Journey. Yes, I experience those days when I totally don’t connect with what is being said or I’m not into the music or I’m frustrated with a specific approach, but those are the services that I just let some things roll off. I leave the building and go on with my day. I go to my LTG, I read my bible, I go to marriage group, I listen to Christian radio (I know, I know) and I go back to church ready to worship God and receive whatever he has in store for me in that place.

*Linda, as much as I understand what you are saying about being shamed as a Christian, when I walked into the Journey as a non-Christian and heard someone talking about some of the things “wrong” with Christianity (and some Christians, to be honest), I was amazed and IMMENSELY grateful that “church people” were actually acknowledging the things I had been feeling and experiencing from Christians and Christian institutions for the better part of my life. That acknowledgement helped break down the walls of hurt, skepticism and bitterness that were keeping me from God. I’d think it would be difficult to deny that there are some wacky Christians out there. And even if they’re not wacky, some Christians ARE judgemental, awful things HAVE been done in the name of Christianity. I don’t think that’s shame, I think it’s just real life. And what I feel is impressed upon people at the Journey is that the onus is on us to be different from the “stereotypical Christian idiots” or whatever. And Linda, I think I know you well enough to know you ARE different. Those times when you feel you are being shamed at the Journey, maybe those are the times that you can let roll off, knowing that they don’t actually apply to you or your life. I am making a lot of assumptions about where you are at with all of this—I know this is something that you and Jim have been wrestling with for a while and so maybe there is more to this story than I know—I certainly don’t want to seem like I am minimizing it. I guess I just want to offer encouragement so that you don’t come away from church discouraged because I know that is a crummy feeling and for me, anyway, it causes me to lose focus on my relationship with God. Mainly, I hope that church will be at best, a great experience, at worst, simply a neutral experience or one that causes us to question in a way that deepends or faith, not one that leave us feeling like misunderstood outsiders.

-Leah

Mornings would be great if they came later in the day