Can I say this?
The “mission” and “vision” statements make me gag. They are so out of place on the “About” page, and just feel like the same corporate gobbledygook I get at work.
Love the DNA though, that resonates with me.
Jon, To be honest, when I read your comment it somewhat put me off. Partially because I’ve been with the Journey since it’s beginning and I have a little bit of a “protective” feeling about it. This mission statement is short and simply stated—maybe not in the most “modern” terms, however, at least I’m not getting lost in alot verbage. Our mission has always and I believe should remain to help people on their journey of faith…whether they are just starting that Journey, been on it for a while or maybe haven’t even started the Journey. We desire them to become fully devoted—not half hearted. We are influencing this valley…I have always been very proud (in a good way) to say I belong to the Journey. We have been making a difference in our community for the last 6 years. Rather than saying it makes you gag what would you suggest as possible wording of our mission and vision?
Since it makes you gag perhaps we should get rid of it all together. Then perhaps we should get rid of the word church, then while were at it we could get rid of the bible, then maybe we should stop talking about god and Jesus all together. The Journey could become a community center like it was last week and drink coffee and do art in the corner while some people play music.
It makes me gag that we trying so hard not look, sound or smell like a church. Jon’s comment above adds to my frustrations. I like many others choose to go to CHURCH on Sunday mornings instead of sleeping in. Last week I should have slept in. I guess it’s up to me to decide if I want to go to a church on Sunday or a community center. But those kinds of comments and ideology will sure help me make up my mind.
Arlet, Armand, SLT and original launch team: I apologize for stomping my muddy boots about on something that is meaningful to you. It troubles me that I hurt you, and I am sorry.
But let me try to clarify what makes me gag. It’s not the content, or the intent, of the mission/vision. It’s the fact that it is a “mission statement, followed by a vision statement”.
How is it that something can be so meaningful to you, and meaningless to me? I think it’s inherent in the whole “mission statement” idea. My experience with mission statements is that the benefit comes from wrestling with the ideas, stripping away what is not essential, trying to come up with something that is both succinct and complete. It is quite a challenge, and it is the process of creating it that is so helpful, because it forces you to ask the question, “What are we doing, anyway?”
It is also my experience that such statements are largely meaningless to those who did not go through the process of creating them (or regularly using them as decision-making tools). There is a reason Dilbert is so popular; I have seen well-intentioned “management-speak” breed cynicism in businesses and churches. I have been conditioned against it. I see “Mission:” and my vision blurs, and sadly the actual statement enters my head as “blah, blah.”
So to the extent that they are helpful tools, by all means, keep them! Don’t change a word. My point is that I dislike seeing such things on any website (or posted on a wall) of any church or business. We live in the center of Dilbert culture, where my friends all feel like corporate drones. I ask the missionary question posed by Alan Hirsch: What is good news to this group?
Hey Sparky,
I’ve been reading these posts…
I love and want people to express feelings… but it has to be done respectfully.
The words “gag” and “community center” are neither helpful or acceptable.
We have had exactly ‘one’ morning set up on the round with coffee tables of the hundreds of Sunday experiences so far. Count them…One.. .we tried something you did not like. Next week we will try something else… and you might or might not like it… but we will continue to experiment. I would value your input on how effective it feels like “church” to you - in particular - how to better foster increased success in our mission of developing fully devoted followers of Christ. If you have positive suggestion about how that can be done…then use this site, my phone number, and in person discussions to help bring a positive voice… but the accusation of community center leved at people who are offering their heart and soul to try new things - done in love - done with commitment and effort - done in the spirit of Christ - accusations like commuity center are not OK.
Our goal is to connect with people seeking spiritual truth - which for some happened very well around round tables. I’m sorry you feel like sleeping in would have been better for you spiritually. I do not share that feeling personally.
Jon,
great clarification… very helpful to hear the meaning behind your comments… and I agree… a simple statement is not capable of communicating the same way a personal expresssion of “what is the good news of this group.” Last month.. on the Road Trip series… we spent several weeks trying to get our Journey folks to ask.. what is our road trip… where are we really going? how wil know if we’re successful. The terms Veloctiy / momentum were used… the large calendar of dates / series / and the handout with all the graphics were used to ask the question.. .are we developing as followers of Christ… is there personal life change…and has our church as a whole made an impact - (like when Jon Duran principle from STHS came!).
So… you are right… the simple mission statement doesn’t do justice… let’s keep talking about how to say it, write it, and most of all live it.
Jeff, when you used, “our mission of developing fully devoted followers of Christ” in the context of a sentence, it did not feel off-putting to me at all. Why, I wonder, does it feel fine (even motivating) to me one way, and off-putting the other?
Jon, I second Jeff in appreciating you for your clarification of what you meant and what was your intention. That’s what I wanted to understand from you.
This all seems like the same discussion we’ve been having for years. I joined the launch team to start something that wasn’t like a typical church. There are hundreds of churches for people to go to. People who don’t have a hard time finding a church have lots of options.
The question we never answer (sufficiently), is: “Where is our focus - ‘church people’ or ‘non-church people’?”
Most of the arguments (sorry Sparky) against our ‘trying so hard not look, sound or smell like a church’ come from folks I think of as church people. These are people who, if the Journey disappeared tomorrow, would find another church. Making church better for those people is not something I’m personally passionate about.
I am passionate about making ‘church’ attractive to non-church people. That’s why I signed up. As time has gone on, I’ve become less likely to invite a ‘spiritually open but ‘non-church’ person’ to the Journey because it feels more like a typical church in non-typical clothing.
Ultimately I agree with Jon’s statement. Our Mission and Vision statements do not inspire me, nor really reflect my (personal) mission or vision. And I feel they look like every other churches. But, ultimately, I do think they represent the mission & vision of the church leadership, which is (again) why I don’t invite my ‘non-church’ friends here.
My ‘church-people’ friends, I’ll happily invite, but of course, most of them have church homes.
Yikes. I thought that the mission and vision statements were pretty cool and I never thought it would offend anyone. I don’t read Dilbert, though I am familiar with it. I have worked in a corporate environment and I hated it, but only because the mission or vision statements didn’t mean anything to most of the management. The Journey is something different. The folks that wrote it believe in what they do and what they try to accomplish. I have to confess that I don’t go to church every Sunday and I am not as involved as God would have me be, but I look up to these people and respect their ideas. Why? Because the don’t just talk the talk.
The criticism, though expected, seemed harsh to me. I have never seen the Journey as a Community Center and I can relate to what was written.
The definition of “Church” is the people of Christ - later used to define a group who worship and serve together. If that is “us” and we want to explore different options for celebrating together, I guess who we are is the definiation of “church”. It is hard to put in words, but look at it this way, how comfortable whould any of us feel walking into a building with pipe organ and a choir in robes? That is church. But so is a wonderful little group we celebrated with in Honduras, without walls, roof or chairs. Funny how getting all hung up on the building and it’s fixtures disappears when you just celebrate the joy of sitting and sharing together.
I have been in serveral other “churches” with the same set up as last week. Loved it. Celebrated in a catholic church this week, loved it. We have a big big God, who isn’t limitied by the way He is worshiped. We need to focus on worshipping Him, and drawing others to Him, not on personal perferences.
It is great to have this free forum to voice our feelings, but we need to be careful when exploration becomes dangerous, due to fear of failure. That is not inviting for those seeking a better way.
Oh, and personally, I’d much rather have the ‘Expression of Faith’ (only I’d prefer to call it something less ‘churchy’) be the first thing people see when going to the ‘About’ link, as I think that is a better approach to take with non-church people.
I am cynical whenever I hear about corporate mission and vision statements… I have always loved Dilbert! Dilbert was so funny because it was so much like my work world… things have changed a bit lately though. Check this out… http://www.despair.com/ I have always enjoyed their calendars on my cube walls.
Here’s an example of how corporate-speak has led to a culture that resists it: You know those motivational posters, with nice photos and inspiring messages? There is a corresponding set of “demotivators” that have been around since 1998.
"If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon."
I've had this poster up in my cube for quite a while now. A funny story; a new VP of something or other was starting at my company and his first day i went to his office to meet him. He was hanging up a *real* motivational poster on his wall... i smiled inside knowing my job was safe. (btw, he doesnt work here anymore)
Mission & vision statements
Can I say this?
The “mission” and “vision” statements make me gag. They are so out of place on the “About” page, and just feel like the same corporate gobbledygook I get at work.
Love the DNA though, that resonates with me.
http://jonreid.blogs.com/
Don't gag
Jon, To be honest, when I read your comment it somewhat put me off. Partially because I’ve been with the Journey since it’s beginning and I have a little bit of a “protective” feeling about it. This mission statement is short and simply stated—maybe not in the most “modern” terms, however, at least I’m not getting lost in alot verbage. Our mission has always and I believe should remain to help people on their journey of faith…whether they are just starting that Journey, been on it for a while or maybe haven’t even started the Journey. We desire them to become fully devoted—not half hearted. We are influencing this valley…I have always been very proud (in a good way) to say I belong to the Journey. We have been making a difference in our community for the last 6 years. Rather than saying it makes you gag what would you suggest as possible wording of our mission and vision?
Go ahead and gag
Since it makes you gag perhaps we should get rid of it all together. Then perhaps we should get rid of the word church, then while were at it we could get rid of the bible, then maybe we should stop talking about god and Jesus all together. The Journey could become a community center like it was last week and drink coffee and do art in the corner while some people play music.
It makes me gag that we trying so hard not look, sound or smell like a church. Jon’s comment above adds to my frustrations. I like many others choose to go to CHURCH on Sunday mornings instead of sleeping in. Last week I should have slept in. I guess it’s up to me to decide if I want to go to a church on Sunday or a community center. But those kinds of comments and ideology will sure help me make up my mind.
Apology/clarification
Arlet, Armand, SLT and original launch team: I apologize for stomping my muddy boots about on something that is meaningful to you. It troubles me that I hurt you, and I am sorry.
But let me try to clarify what makes me gag. It’s not the content, or the intent, of the mission/vision. It’s the fact that it is a “mission statement, followed by a vision statement”.
How is it that something can be so meaningful to you, and meaningless to me? I think it’s inherent in the whole “mission statement” idea. My experience with mission statements is that the benefit comes from wrestling with the ideas, stripping away what is not essential, trying to come up with something that is both succinct and complete. It is quite a challenge, and it is the process of creating it that is so helpful, because it forces you to ask the question, “What are we doing, anyway?”
It is also my experience that such statements are largely meaningless to those who did not go through the process of creating them (or regularly using them as decision-making tools). There is a reason Dilbert is so popular; I have seen well-intentioned “management-speak” breed cynicism in businesses and churches. I have been conditioned against it. I see “Mission:” and my vision blurs, and sadly the actual statement enters my head as “blah, blah.”
So to the extent that they are helpful tools, by all means, keep them! Don’t change a word. My point is that I dislike seeing such things on any website (or posted on a wall) of any church or business. We live in the center of Dilbert culture, where my friends all feel like corporate drones. I ask the missionary question posed by Alan Hirsch: What is good news to this group?
http://jonreid.blogs.com/
Easy now...
Hey Sparky,
I’ve been reading these posts…
I love and want people to express feelings… but it has to be done respectfully.
The words “gag” and “community center” are neither helpful or acceptable.
We have had exactly ‘one’ morning set up on the round with coffee tables of the hundreds of Sunday experiences so far. Count them…One.. .we tried something you did not like. Next week we will try something else… and you might or might not like it… but we will continue to experiment. I would value your input on how effective it feels like “church” to you - in particular - how to better foster increased success in our mission of developing fully devoted followers of Christ. If you have positive suggestion about how that can be done…then use this site, my phone number, and in person discussions to help bring a positive voice… but the accusation of community center leved at people who are offering their heart and soul to try new things - done in love - done with commitment and effort - done in the spirit of Christ - accusations like commuity center are not OK.
Our goal is to connect with people seeking spiritual truth - which for some happened very well around round tables. I’m sorry you feel like sleeping in would have been better for you spiritually. I do not share that feeling personally.
good clarification
Jon,
great clarification… very helpful to hear the meaning behind your comments… and I agree… a simple statement is not capable of communicating the same way a personal expresssion of “what is the good news of this group.” Last month.. on the Road Trip series… we spent several weeks trying to get our Journey folks to ask.. what is our road trip… where are we really going? how wil know if we’re successful. The terms Veloctiy / momentum were used… the large calendar of dates / series / and the handout with all the graphics were used to ask the question.. .are we developing as followers of Christ… is there personal life change…and has our church as a whole made an impact - (like when Jon Duran principle from STHS came!).
So… you are right… the simple mission statement doesn’t do justice… let’s keep talking about how to say it, write it, and most of all live it.
How odd
Jeff, when you used, “our mission of developing fully devoted followers of Christ” in the context of a sentence, it did not feel off-putting to me at all. Why, I wonder, does it feel fine (even motivating) to me one way, and off-putting the other?
http://jonreid.blogs.com/
thank you
Jon, I second Jeff in appreciating you for your clarification of what you meant and what was your intention. That’s what I wanted to understand from you.
I hesitate to even chime in...
This all seems like the same discussion we’ve been having for years. I joined the launch team to start something that wasn’t like a typical church. There are hundreds of churches for people to go to. People who don’t have a hard time finding a church have lots of options.
The question we never answer (sufficiently), is: “Where is our focus - ‘church people’ or ‘non-church people’?”
Most of the arguments (sorry Sparky) against our ‘trying so hard not look, sound or smell like a church’ come from folks I think of as church people. These are people who, if the Journey disappeared tomorrow, would find another church. Making church better for those people is not something I’m personally passionate about.
I am passionate about making ‘church’ attractive to non-church people. That’s why I signed up. As time has gone on, I’ve become less likely to invite a ‘spiritually open but ‘non-church’ person’ to the Journey because it feels more like a typical church in non-typical clothing.
Ultimately I agree with Jon’s statement. Our Mission and Vision statements do not inspire me, nor really reflect my (personal) mission or vision. And I feel they look like every other churches. But, ultimately, I do think they represent the mission & vision of the church leadership, which is (again) why I don’t invite my ‘non-church’ friends here.
My ‘church-people’ friends, I’ll happily invite, but of course, most of them have church homes.
And now for something completely different
I love the way the “About -> People” page shows me, and you, and you…
I look forward to seeing what “About -> Staff” will look like. I expect to laugh. :-)
http://jonreid.blogs.com/
this is interesting
Yikes. I thought that the mission and vision statements were pretty cool and I never thought it would offend anyone. I don’t read Dilbert, though I am familiar with it. I have worked in a corporate environment and I hated it, but only because the mission or vision statements didn’t mean anything to most of the management. The Journey is something different. The folks that wrote it believe in what they do and what they try to accomplish. I have to confess that I don’t go to church every Sunday and I am not as involved as God would have me be, but I look up to these people and respect their ideas. Why? Because the don’t just talk the talk.
The criticism, though expected, seemed harsh to me. I have never seen the Journey as a Community Center and I can relate to what was written.
Re: The rest of our website
The definition of “Church” is the people of Christ - later used to define a group who worship and serve together. If that is “us” and we want to explore different options for celebrating together, I guess who we are is the definiation of “church”. It is hard to put in words, but look at it this way, how comfortable whould any of us feel walking into a building with pipe organ and a choir in robes? That is church. But so is a wonderful little group we celebrated with in Honduras, without walls, roof or chairs. Funny how getting all hung up on the building and it’s fixtures disappears when you just celebrate the joy of sitting and sharing together.
I have been in serveral other “churches” with the same set up as last week. Loved it. Celebrated in a catholic church this week, loved it. We have a big big God, who isn’t limitied by the way He is worshiped. We need to focus on worshipping Him, and drawing others to Him, not on personal perferences.
It is great to have this free forum to voice our feelings, but we need to be careful when exploration becomes dangerous, due to fear of failure. That is not inviting for those seeking a better way.
Re: The rest of our website
Oh, and personally, I’d much rather have the ‘Expression of Faith’ (only I’d prefer to call it something less ‘churchy’) be the first thing people see when going to the ‘About’ link, as I think that is a better approach to take with non-church people.
mission statements
I am cynical whenever I hear about corporate mission and vision statements… I have always loved Dilbert! Dilbert was so funny because it was so much like my work world… things have changed a bit lately though. Check this out… http://www.despair.com/ I have always enjoyed their calendars on my cube walls.
Corporate cynicism
Here’s an example of how corporate-speak has led to a culture that resists it: You know those motivational posters, with nice photos and inspiring messages? There is a corresponding set of “demotivators” that have been around since 1998.
http://jonreid.blogs.com/
Jim!
You beat me!
http://jonreid.blogs.com/
Motivation
"If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon."
I've had this poster up in my cube for quite a while now. A funny story; a new VP of something or other was starting at my company and his first day i went to his office to meet him. He was hanging up a *real* motivational poster on his wall... i smiled inside knowing my job was safe. (btw, he doesnt work here anymore)