Why Stay Someplace You Wouldn't Bring Your Friends?
I believe that one of the patterns of the kingdom is that each of us is created to connect with different kinds of people (loosely: Eph 2:10). As we grow in our identity as individuals, we see patterns in the kinds of people who tend to be attracted to us and we to them. I believe that perceiving and understanding the kinds of people we are attracted to is a big clue to our specific roles and missions in the kingdom. Our roles and mission drive the kind of spiritual community we choose.
There are three primary contexts to our relationships: friends/family, work and our passions/interests. Relational patterns that are unique to each of us will surface in those three contexts. Those patterns help reveal who we are and they also point us to the kinds of communities we would consider to be good matches for us.
In my reading of the posts on the site so far, it seems like they tend to fall into three categories:
- Overall happiness and satisfaction with the Journey’s direction
- Contentment with the way the Journey is but a vision for some room for growth and change
- Almost complete dissatisfaction with the nature of Journey as a community of disciples
If I’m understanding the comments properly, people in the last category tend to say that the Journey is not currently someplace to which they feel comfortable inviting their friends.
I’ve been thinking through this correlation for a while and I came to a realization about something that has left me puzzled:
Why would someone stay at a church where they feel there are more things that are amiss than things that are on target? And in terms of individual mission, if the Journey is not the kind of place where someone feels they can bring their friends, why stay at the Journey?
Suppose that one of the primary patterns I’ve found in my relationships with people is that I tend to connect really well with Catholics. But I attend a Protestant church and then complain that the Protestant church isn’t the kind of place I can bring my Catholic friends. I then offer up ideas to change the mission of the Protestant church so that it becomes more like a Catholic church that I can bring my friends to. Why not just attend a Catholic church?
Because I believe that the people who tend to show up in our lives points us to our specific roles and mission, I’m struggling to understand why some seem to say that the Journey is way off target, and in support of their claim say, “I could never bring my friends to the Journey. They wouldn’t like it,” as if that proves that the Journey has wandered off square.
To which I wonder: Why not go to a church that is a place their friends would enjoy? Why do some seem to try to get the Journey to conform to specific preferences that cater to their target group when finding a community that already has these factors of affinity in place would probably make more sense?
I’m not trying to be a jerk here. I’m just saying that maybe for some people, the Journey isn’t the best place for them. It’s a tricky line between chronic dissatisfaction and contentment with a vision for some room for growth. I can’t draw that line for anyone. But at some point, if somone has crossed over to chronic dissatisfaction, it seems like they need to look seriously at the patterns of their relationships to see if those patterns connect well with Journey. If the answer is No, perhaps contentment and peace can be found with a different group of people.
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good point
I think you explained it quite well… it is just hard to sort it out sometimes. All kinds of loyalties, commitments, emotions, and pressures come into play.
Hey Dave
Thanks for a good lil’ post here. I think that is a really good nudge to sort of balance a few posts out that are on here.
I understand the passion and frustration of some of the posts mentioning how they can’t bring their friends to church - but I’m not sure that this “friend sample” is the BEST metric whether a church is “on” or “not.”
That being said, when I’m excited about something, I can’t help but be an evangelist about it… I do hope for myself and everyone who’s posting that we can “throw in” together and create a space, place, community… that we are excited about. It won’t be perfect but it could be close… close enough for us to want to tell our friends, coworkers, family…
Not by Itself
For sure, by itself, the the now-dubbed Friend Metric is incomplete as a criteria for whether a church is on target. However, if the mantra is “I can’t bring my friends here” then it’s a great starting point to decide whether it’s time to move on or stick around.
I believe in God because every once in a while, I hear a voice that says, “You’re my favorite.”
Can you reframe the question?
I think I finally figured out why this question does not work for me. Dave — correct me if I’m wrong — I think what you are asking is “Do I like it here?” That is, is this a church I can believe in? Is this where I belong?
But as soon as the question is, “Why not go to a church that is a place their friends would enjoy,” the answer for me is, I know of no such church in the area. None. (I hope to elaborate on this in If you build it…)
So I think you’re stuck with me. :-)
yep
I agree Jon… I was having trouble with that one too. There are a number of wonderful churches in the area that I could be a part of but none that I would bring someone from work or anyone without church experience anyway. There is one in Pleasanton that I love but I would be crazy to invite anyone unless they were ready for a pretty wild experience.
Why are you afraid to bring people?
Brooke, Liz, Christy, Juanita, Kristen, Dawna. I brought them all. I didn’t know if they would think it was terrible or if they would love it. A bit about them (in no particular order).
One was a non-Christian but curious. She came for about 2 year (I think) during which time the Journey helped her move to accept Christ and was baptised here. She moved to a more evangelical church but is still living our mission to becoming a more fully devoted follower of Jesus Christ.
One was a Christian but not being fed nor able to feed others due to family issues. She came to the Journey for about a year or so and is now actively pursuing Christ in Joel’s house church and is on FIRE about Jesus again.
Two believed in God but neither were a committed Christian (that I know of). One has talked to Jeff about having her and both of her boys baptized. She has since brought 3 other people. The other came for a few months, then stopped and then came back at Christmas. She didn’t go to church when I invited her and she doesn’t go now. She has told me on a few occasions that she really liked the authenticity and messages at the Journey and is interested in returning. I am pretty certain that if she goes to church again, it will be the Journey that she comes to.
One grew up Catholic and is trying to figure out God. She came for a few weeks off and on but isn’t coming anymore.
One came one time and never came back. She checked it out and it wasn’t for her.
There are lots of people that I haven’t invited because I am afraid that they will think I am weird or the relationship is not there or because I have fairly clear signals that they won’t come. Also, a lot of people that I have invited have never shown interest. I have invited my neighbors, some friends, a few people I work with, and Kirk just invited Ryan’s speech therapist last week. Assuming someone is willing to try it out, what if they don’t like it and don’t come back? They will be right back to where they are now. But, what if they like it and God permeates their life? We need to take the risk. God says so.
Churches You Believe In
There are two questions implied in the last couple posts:
Two different issues.
Inviting someone to church is always a bit of a risk (unless they ask you, “Hey can I come to your church with you some day?”). So, that’s not really my question. I think Jon, Jen and Jim are dealing with this issue.
What I’m trying to get at is this: I’ve read complaints from various people who are saying that the Journey isn’t someplace they would bring their friends. The implication in the critique is that by the fact that there is reluctance to invite friends, there is something therefore wrong or errant about the forms and methods of Journey. And I think the second implication is this: If Journey would just make the changes I think we ought to make, I can then bring my friends here. It’s a bit of a hostage situation. Give me what I want and no one gets hurt.
And I still stand by my point: The people we find in our lives — and more generally: the kinds of people we tend to find in our lives over the course of time — are usually pretty good indicators of the nature of our ministry to other people.
But let me turn up the volume a bit on my thesis here: The people in our lives not only point us to our ministries but they are more important than church affiliations. This is because if for some bizarre reason structured/formalized churches ceased to exist, we could still relate the kingdom to the people in our lives. We don’t need the Journey or any other church to convey the kingdom to the people in our lives.
Now, if my thesis is true, then we next need to consider the following: What are the contexts within which I can relate the kingdom to people in my life? In other posts, I have said that the three most natural contexts are:
Another context is “church,” or more accurately, a Sunday morning event of some type.
Most of the complaints about Journey seem to revolve around the Sunday morning event, so let’s take that is the focus of my argument.
If the people in your life are your most important indicator of the type of ministry you have, but the place where you typically go to experience a Sunday morning event is at great odds with your preferences, why would you stay at that particular church?
What I was really trying to say, in a subtle, hopefully polite way was this: Paint or get off the ladder.
Quit complaining about Journey’s warts and faults and its mission and get on board. Or go someplace else. Seek to influence change in the way Journey works out its mission? Abso-loot-ley. But stick around and be a chronic complainer about all the things that are wrong. Nope. Go find someplace else.
We need to look at the people in our lives and think about what they indicate about our ministry in their lives. When it comes to inviting those people to a Sunday event, yes there is risk, but the core issue is this: All other risk factors aside, is the Journey the optimal Sunday event that you could bring your friends to?
If the answer is Yes! then cool daddy-o, Journey is the place for you, and eventually your friends.
If the answer is No or there is significant doubt, then it’s time to decide whether there may be a different local body of believers that more accurately expresses your notions of kingdom life.
In Summary:
* Look to the kinds of people in your life to best understand your ministry.
* Evaluate whether the Journey is the optimal place for you to be involved
* Decide: Get on board or get out
Footnote: “get on board” doesn’t mean total agreement and it doesn’t mean toeing the party line. Unity is not total agreement nor the absence of conflict. Unity is the ability of people to subordinate their preferences and disagreements to the higher value of a local church’s expressed mission and to the higher value of the relationships in that body.
Sorry if this comes across harsh… but kinda not sorry too. For 20 years, I have both seen people chronically complain about pet issues and make big deals out of them, and I have myself been a chronic complainer. And my position now is: it’s better for everyone if the chronic complainers just move on. The only thing accomplished by negotiation or placating complainers is to defer the inevitable split, and to make it more painful when it does happen.
I believe in God because every once in a while, I hear a voice that says, “You’re my favorite.”
sun am
I still don’t see Sunday AM as my evangelistic outreach for the people I connect with… I do better sitting around a pool, or in the yard, etc with a neighbor without feeling the pressure to get butts in seats for Sun AM. If I hear or sense someone is looking for a church I tell them about the Journey.
Ah
It took a couple of rounds, Dave, but I think I finally get what you’re saying:
fish or cut bait.
Bingo Ringo
I believe in God because every once in a while, I hear a voice that says, “You’re my favorite.”