If you build it…

i think we have a lot of potential at this point in time to craft something that people will really want to participate in. i don't necessarily mean a sunday am experience, but everything that the journey does: LTGs, this site, stuff we haven't even thought of at this point. i can't wait to see what comes up at the open space. you should call a session, jon, that your friends/peers would want to be a part of.

But only if you bring Starbucks. A direct IV drip would be preferable, but if not, then a large would be good. Thank you.

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I believe in God because every once in a while, I hear a voice that says, "You're my favorite."

As a nonbeliever, just making the moves to show up in church on a sunday is a HUGE step. Too big for people. I'd never do it if someone (my wife) wasn't dragging me.

How can we create MINI STEPS from nothing to eventually showing up on a sunday?

I think this forum could be one such step. You can interact from the safety and anonymity of your home.

Other ideas?

I am a firm believer that the Journey will succeed in bringing people to God. The journey is a very unique church. It offers a dynamic pastor who tuly cares about each soul inside the church, a friendly atmosphere, Rockin music, a safe and fun environment for the children where each teacher is passionate about bringing children to God. As well as we have things like Community impact day where we actually SERVE the community. People no matter what there thoughts on church, whether good or bad are drawn to God because he has called them. It is NOT the church but a church that fits their type of personality. I love the journey because I can honestly say it is a place in which I feel that sense of "HOME". I am huge on evangelism and it can be discouraging to constantly invite friends to church who have their own stereotypes on it because it is "Church". I am a bit skeptical about the new ways the journey will embark but excited. It is another tool I have to get people discusiing topics such as faith, sex, infedelity, relationships, spiritual growth, being an authentic christian,.... I have a lot of non- christian friends yet they are comfortable attending things with the journey like the comedy sports night, or community impact day, the carnival, etc. It is my way to get them used to church in a safe way, and yet they inquire when our next event will be. I can only pray for them, as for you. God will call them, they will show up. It just takes Faith. I believe. Shouldn't you?

Danielle, as long as it is effective, keep inviting your friends to church. I truly mean that. It would be wonderful if they came.

For my friends, it is not effective. So I stopped. And when I did, I realized that “getting them to come to church” has become the de facto form of evangelism, so much so that we generally do not engage in or explore other forms.

The fixation on the “church service” determines staffing and budget for most churches. Like a strong gravitational pull, everything swirls around the large gathering. But I am of the opinion that this is putting the cart way, way ahead of the horse. It focuses our time, energy and money on that which is least effective.

…Sure, I’ll do an open space — thanks for the suggestion! But don’t feel you have to wait until then to share some coffee with me.

I agree... I have serious doubts about the roi on using Sun AM as a tool for evangelism. I like to have a big event like that once in a while but I think it should serve a different purpose... the Journey community coming together for a corporate worship or prayer time for example. I can't think of anyone I know of who would be interested in what we offer on Sun AM.

children's ministry offers the best return on investment by far statistically.

I think the community impact day, childrens ministry, World Vision (I hated the whole "Luxury Tax" idea though... reminded me of Marx), and other projects like that where we pull together to serve people are probably where we should focus our energy and money. Even if we just had Journeyland and had a place for the parents to sit down and have some coffee and bagels and talk with other adults that would be very good. We can do without the Sun AM show. We could have another time on a regular basis where we come together as a big group to really meet with God and really worship... it does not have to be Sunday AM even. My son Ezra had an idea about Jeff, Joel H, or others leading discussions in a more public space like a coffee shop... I remember in the 70's how coffee shops would have some hindu guru give a talk in a coffee shop. It would have to very casual and interactive though.

I have been dreaming about hosting a “theology pub” at Britannia Arms - Alamaden Exp. - where we would provide the place and maybe the first 5 pitchers of beer and then have a “topic of the night” - suggested by a few people… and then have round table discussions around those topics.
Now that is something I would get excited about!

Cool idea… go for it!

One of the best combinations ever! As that sage, ben Franklin said, “Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

I’m in for beer and God discussions. Is this an event where an undiscipled person could participate? Also, I’ve had some pretty sad experiences in doctrinal debates so I’d like to see some ground rules so that it doesn’t turn into a free for all.

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I believe in God because every once in a while, I hear a voice that says, “You’re my favorite.”

I used to work across the road from that one… it would be a great place to hang. I used to go over there with folks from work.

Count me in… as long as we can keep it from getting argumenative. This idea has me excited. That is the kind of setting where I believe the “seeker” focus would be most fruitful.

Amen to finding seekers in pubs, or anywhere else for that matter! Becoming more effective at pulling in seekers (or those who aren’t seeking but we can pique their curiosity “accidently”), definately!

But, let’s not take away from what the Journey has done for people seeking spiritual truth! Many people have been baptised, turned from non-believers to people excited about the journey of becoming fully devoted followers of Christ. This has happened through what we have offered over the past 5 years, which I would guess is initial exposure and some level of ongoing commitment to the church through Sunday mornings, (along with the support of LTGs, Deeper, community impact, special events, etc.). People HAVE been challenged, engaged, and taught about Jesus through Sunday morning worship experiences.

I was sitting right behind Brian Underhill on the day God spoke to him in a big way. I didn’t feel particularly moved on that Sunday. Some Sundays I think, that was totally for me! Other times, I walk out thinking, that was for someone else. But, I have unfailing faith that God is moving in someone every Sunday, urging them to make the commitment.

So, is Sunday morning a tool? Absolutely! Probably a better tool for people who are seeking a church that they can explore and participate in vs. a newbie or someone who isn’t seeking.

So, I guess my question is, when there are so many categories of people (those not seeking at all, those who can be convinced to come to something that is somewhat related to church, those who are questioning and looking for answers, those who have found Christ but want a more relevant, real church to explore in, and those who are committed to Christ and want to really dive into a spiritually fulfilling and challenging church)- do we have to pick a category? Or, can we sustainably pick them all? This is a tough question. How do we use our resources to maximize journeying with people in becoming fully devoted followers of Christ? Or, is the question how do we use our resources to start the process with non-believers?

I think my head might explode.

The Gray Matrix is a tool to help us understand that people are in different places:

So as Jen says, different strokes for different folks. I guess the question for The Journey is, where is our focus?

I can’t answer that question for The Journey. But for me, the answer is clear: All of my normal friends are in the A Quadrant. Some are more spiritually inquisitive, some less so. But all of them view “church” as, at best, irrelevant, at worst, a threat to society.

Where do your friends lie in the Gray Matrix?

Look for “Church sucks but Jesus is OK”: Reaching the “Unreachable” coming soon to an open space near you!

Jen, thanks for the post. I agree, I have a fence riding friend who FLOURISHED in Christ via the Journey Church. I have invited another handful of friends because I trusted that it would be a good experience for them. Another friend accepted Christ and was baptized there. I wasn’t so focused on programing - more the kind of people - the culture that was there. It felt close to the “real world” - people they could relate to. They trusted the culture and Jeff and found Christ in the process.

Jon, I have friends in all those categories. I TOTALLY understand your concern that there’s too much “defacto” Sunday AM evangelism. I love the push for creativity and some of the ideas to encourage spiritual conversations outside of Sunday AM. (Beer anyone?)

If I pause and really try and absorb everything everyone is saying… I would say that in general I agree that there’s certain people who do better speaking faith stuff outside of a church gathering. BUT something in my spirit just doesn’t feel right limiting God or my friends or the unseen work of the Holy Spirit with blanket statements of “ALL my friends… NEVER…” It doesn’t seem inline with the historic giants of faith - evangelists and apostles - who would go into a total “A” ridden area (your graph) and respond with faith, prayer, fasting… and see God do real miracles.

I agree with Frances - lets make a space, place, time (or times) where we do our best, in faith, and watch God do miracles…

I can’t wait to attend your open space : )

I am so glad to hear about good stuff happening out of Sunday AM with other people’s friends. I know I tend to evaluate evangelism by saying, “If it’s not reaching my friends, it’s crap,” and I apologize for that.

So in the midst of all this. I think an important question has been raised that needs to be answered. Who are we designing the new Journey Sunday AM for? Obviously we are not designing it for those that will never come to church because …well…they won’t come. And that’s OK. But there are others that will come to a Sunday morning experience.

I think that we really need a clear picture of who our potential Sunday AM “customer” is. IKEA has a very specific target person in mind when they designe there stuff (20-40 single or DINK. Maybe one kid. Living in a small space) Apple also has a very specific target ( teens and twenties that want a high coolness factor with a decent amount of disposable income) They even name these fictional people and dress them and give them life histories. That doesn’t mean they don’t reach other people too. I don’t fit either target group but I like their stuff.

So what if we put as tight a focus on the Sunday AM experience? After all, if we don’t know what our target is we can’t reach them. We will end up over extended and ineffective.

“So what about my friends?” I hear my husband ask. Well I think that is a separate issue. Paul went to the Gentiles and didn’t worry about the Jews. Peter went to the Jews and didn’t worry about the Gentiles. Both were absulutely vital to the kingdom but Paul was not trying to make the Gentiles go to the Jewish churches. He understood and supported the Jewish ministry but his focus was elsewhere.

In the same way I think we can have both a highly focused Sunday AM time and a highly fucused beer bash…err…OK maybe beer and focus don’t go together… But the goal is to bring people into a relationship with God. Whatever it takes. Some of us will be like Paul and others will be like Peter but the church is big enough for both.

Wow my kids must have started school today. I can actually put a coherent thought together again :-)

For those of you who aren’t in EPIC: we’ve been reading an amazing book called Jim & Casper go to Church, and in it, a pastor and an atheist visit a series of different churches around the country. I found some amazing insights into it, and one of the most poignant things is that in a majority of the churches and services (“UnReligion Anyone?”) - Casper says something to the effect of: “This is great. People are coming together, and there’s a good message/band/whatever, but I still need to ask - is this what Jesus really wants from his followers? To get together and sing? Why don’t you donate the 600 man hours you use EVERY SINGLE WEEK to something like cleaning parks, helping the homeless, building a house etc? Practically showing Jesus love instead?”

-T
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What if we’re just figments of God’s imagination?

That is something we have to ask ourselves. I tend to think the comm impact, Journeyland, and carnival are the most effective Journey ministries. I sure do like to get together with a large group of people and really focus on worshipping God, together, and on a regular basis though. We do need to be more than a service club. Service clubs are great, but we need take it a step further I think.

Theology Pub is a great example of what I have started calling “mission outposts” — something to get normal people and followers of Jesus mixing it up outside of Sunday AM. Let me see if I can prime the pump a bit more:

• Theology Pub
• Art show (some of us have done one before)
• Spiritual movie night (my atheist friends are asking me to reinstate this)
• Backyard party with an alt-worship installation
• “Community impact day”-type activity

The Journey is an amazing group of super-creative people, so I’m sure we can come up with more!

Dave and I have held many movie nights to discuss spiritual messages in modern movies, and it’s very powerful.

I’ve also attended spiritual art shows as both a worship and community experience - very cool.

Wouldn’t it be interesting to have a poetry/fiction reading night (where you read your own creative writing work)? It could be “poetry jam” style or simply open mic/coffee house style.

Sounds like it might be cool to have an “fine arts and spirituality” session at the open space/unconference on October 7. Do we have any Journey people with a fine arts bent who would be interested in leading that kind of discussion?

Tanya Reynolds
http://www.tanyamreynolds.com
http://tanyareynolds.blogspot.com

Hello Journey,

My name is Kent Ezell and I am one of the founders of the Journey. I am so excited to hear what the Journey is doing with this website. I miss going to church with people who are exploring faith.

A major strand in the Journey’s DNA is helping people to be fully devoted followers of Christ. In the old days, we spent a lot of time on the light rail passing out coffee and talking to people about Jesus and what the Journey is about. We would also pass out water and juice to people at kids’ soccer games.

Since moving to Grand Rapids, Mi, I miss the opportunities that Journey gave me to share my love of Jesus. I quickly realized, though, it was not the responsibility of the church to create those opportunities; it was mine. I now am leading an evangelist movement in my new church and asking God to “expand my territory” in reaching helping people to become fully devoted followers of Christ. He has answered my prayer!

Kent Ezell
kentezell@yahoo.com

It sounds like the focus on Sunday morning is misplaced. It isn’t step one. Building relationships and showing who Christ in in our lives - that’s the church. Events are great second steps, maybe church is step three or four. I think once we pay a pastor we feel that our paycheck takes the responsibility off ourselves. If we get people to church we can pass off the responsibility. I think the role of the pastor is to encourage us as we interact with people in our everyday life circles. Keep Sunday morning open to everyone - the worst feeling is walking into a church where you feel like everyone is in on something and you missed the memo.

Pour me a drink any topic

Howdy Partners! I like some or the “Reconstructing” going on here. Hey Jon, what’s a “spiritual movie night” look like? How come your “A” buddies like it?

I’m sure there are many ways to do this. I’ve only done a couple, so it’s been low-key: I just invite them for “spiritual movie night”, letting them know what the movie is. We’ve done Whale Rider, we’ve done Fight Club. I introduce the movie as a spiritual movie, challenging everyone to be aware of anything that speaks to them in a deep way. I think part of the game for them is figuring why I think something is spiritual.

Jon and I discussed another cool idea: Flash Church, just like flash mobs. Circulate a time and place, show up, quote a single verse and challenge the people to do a specific act (ie.. find a homeless person and buy them a sandwich and pray for them) over the next week.

-T
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What if we’re just figments of God’s imagination?

Prophetic statement from yesterday’s all-company meeting:
“The days of ‘If you build it, they will come’ are over.”

(exegete…)

Agreed… that goes for websites, software, and… churches.

sometimes i think we forget that different activities are for different purposes, not every movement we make is just for the lost, hungry and homeless, sometimes we gather to raise up the “believers” and encourage them to go be “the church.” JGA sure, but that is more education. no single activity is going to do it all. i just get concerned that the sunday morning event tries so hard to be comfortable for the lost, we are miss the boat at the encouragement of the believers.