Not Singing ALong - Worship

Sometimes for me to sing is actually a distraction from worship. Sometimes I like to make a lot of noise and sometimes not. I feel like the Holy Spirit carries me along in a good worship time. Many times it works best if I close my eyes and then sometimes the Lord gives me visions… so play on, worship music is serious spiritual warfare.

As a nonbeliever, I never sang. Even though sometimes I felt like it, I just couldn’t get myself to do it. Would never clap either.

Singing? What about dancing? I like being there when brother Jimmy Gordon breaks out in a Holy dance for our Lord. Ever see him? He is an inspiration to the rest of us dads. Go jimbo, Go Jimbo, Go, Go, Go Jimbo.

~Frank

I think listening on sundays for a non believer is very different then what they expieriance on say…a concert. A concert is designed to entertain, worship is to expieriance, to honor and for participation. People learn secular songs by repetition, and truthfully often get them wrong - there are many jokes about mixed up words. But lots of people sing along at concerts so the concept is not really all that out there. The words on the screen not only make it easier to sing along but also make it easier just to help when you don’t completely understand the words sung and just want to listen. We don’t sing the songs often enough to memorize, there are so many great songs we get a lot of variety, and especially non believers don’t listen to them on their ipod.
I think the Journey makes it obvious that you do not have to sing, sometimes only having the lead singer start out, and sometimes not having the words up till everyone is suppose to join in. As a believer i feel free to clap or not clap, and think others feel the same since only about half do, but I do not feel free to move around or be very expresive. I have to admit i don’t go to a lot of concerts, but the people on tv during telebised concerts get a lot more excitied and move around more than i see on any sunday morning. So i guess iyou could argue that maybe even a concervative aproach could also turn non believers off.
OK turht? I have gone to churches without the words being up and it drove me crazy - so please!!! keep them up!

I always wondered about how people get really excited at say… a U2 concert (I have nothing against U2 btw)… then when we go to church we hold back when we really have something to be excited about (the creator of the universe in our midst). I completely understand because I am a quite reserved myself… I think some of it is the fear of man… what would people think if I really did what my spirit felt like doing (I completely understand that and feel that many times)… some of it could be that maybe people really don’t know how to worship or just can’t connect with God, etc. Perhaps King David could teach us all a lot about this subject. BTW the David Crowder concert at the Fillmore in SF was an intense worship experience. We could not be too demonstrative in that place because we were packed shoulder to shoulder on a big dance floor.

David Crowder Band @ the Filmore was an amazing worship experience!

There was a girl in front of me with flailing (read: drunk) arms who almost knocked me in the head twice. She is lucky I don’t pack heat.

Joking.
No, seriously.
Okay, joking. I don’t take firearms to the Filmore.

My thoughts on worship:

1. I’m very pro-concert. I’m very pro, we are going to put on amazing experience up here…as if people are paying $45 a ticket to see this. Sing along if ya, if not cool. Worship along if ya like, if not cool. Either way we (the band) are going to rock it out and worship.

2. Why would people sing songs to a God they don’t know?

3. random point. I was reading about church growth recently (no- I do not use drugs) and they talked about taking risks and trying new things. Yay Journey. The idea is that we must be :: Comfortably uncomfortable ::

I liiiiiike that.

Even though sometimes I hate it.

goodbye.

I agree the Crowder concert at the Fillmore was great, and a different venue than they’ve previously been at but since they were my worship band in college it was so much closer to my experience with them then. Their music was amazing, the lyrics simple but deep and loud enough to FEEL the music but not too loud that my hearing was impaired. There was something about the way they played sunday that was like a concert but still worship that I could close my eyes and the whole world disappear. It was me and God even when I was at my worst I could be present with him. They some how found that secret spot that combined that concert feelign of A Dave Matthew type experience, with chorus’ a person could sing to and depending on where you were you felt free to experience what was happening that day.

Shannon B.

its sad but i usually get more out of a concert. A lot worship experiences ive had seem to come up short. I love showing my love to god musically but my experiences in the clubs of LA are far different than worship services. To a non christian christian music is lame. it all sounds the same and is cheezy. It doesnt have the beat of kanye or the intricacy of radiohead. In other countries worship music isnt the hybrid of country and folk that it is here. Im all about giving it to the lord in my best way possible but it doesnt necessarily mean in a music style.

At the same time im not all about a concert experience cause that puts the emphasis on the energy of the music and not the meaning. it also becomes about the act on stage and less about the church as a body signing out. But if we change music and more people come and can connect with god then its a good change
.

Ok. So that’s kind of my question: Concert vs Church (not so much the actual elements of a concert but the feeling or interaction that happens at a concert in contrast to the feelings and interaction of church singing).

I’m just curious, given the mission of the Journey and it’s goal being “outsider” focused how you’d feel coming to a place - or bringing others to a place - where the music was “vibey,” “powerful,” “spiritual,” etc but where there were no lyrics on screen, and the people sort of just sang at you or to God or whatever. Maybe there were pictures on screen or maybe video that makes sense… but less of the “verse, chorus, sing along!” sort of interaction we’re used to. What would that do for you? Where in a service would this make sense? How much of the music portion would be like that? What are the people doing while this sort of more concert interaction is happening?

The Fillmore was mentioned a bunch. I was busy in NY sipping on coolies, so let me ask you - did David C have lyrics on screens? Did it feel like something you’d bring your less churched or unchurched friends to? What would it be like for them? Did he talk a lot to the crowd (ie work ‘em, engage ‘em, etc). How much? How often?

It was not hypey. He was humble. He was fun. He did some intense responsive worship stuff so it was not all from the stage. Any time someone sings “worthy is the lamb” I get excited. Some of it was captured on youtube.

Go see Tomlin live, it’ll be as good as any secular concert you’ve been to. The high is free and doesn’t require drugs, and it lasts a few days.

Ok. So I’ve personally seen Tomlin and Crowder. And I know what worked for me. But my question is would you want to bring YOUR friends, coworkers, etc to Tomlin and Crowder. If so, why? Tomlin is more churchy to me. I wouldn’t want to bring my non-christian friends to him. Crowder is different. He’s relational and weird. I have a hard time boxing him in. Iis there a portion of Sunday AM that should feel more… crowderish - even if there isn’t active singing from the people who show up and are listening… more artsy, less about “sing along with me?” For instance Scott Phillips just played two originals back-to-back last week. Was that useful to new people? Is this music any more or less useful than worship choruses to new people?

What I don’t get is why have Scott Phillips fly all the way out here to sing “ONE” of his own songs? He led Worship and sang only one of his songs. What a waste of money. It was awsome to see him and have him here but WOW, what a lot of money to spend! I wish I had that kind of money to blow. It would have been nice to have our own AG come and play. Hey, maybe next time?

~Frank

Scott Phillips actually sang 2 original songs. Just Because and A Nursery Rhyme (Fleece) are both ones he wrote.

I loved having him and thought that his leading us in songs that we are familiar with really connected him to us in a cool way. I felt like he really “got” what and who we are and he participated in that with us. To me, that is cool. He brought something different this week and it was an awesome part of the whole amazing experience of Sunday.

To answer Andy’s question, a big part of how I engage in worship and connect with God is through singing. I also appreciate listening to songs and concerts but it doesn’t fill my tank in the same way as when I engage in the act of singing. Although I enjoyed the Faith Sounds Like series, I missed the singing.

So, for me, I want to sing. I don’t need it every week but I need it. Same goes with the clapping. I miss that. It gets me charged up!

i like your question andy & think it definitely is a good discussion.

imo, part of creating an experience for people who are not church folk is making everything we do accessible so that they can participate, or understand it at the very least. my old church used to print the order of every experience in the program so that people would know how close we were to the end!

even though it seems odd to stand and sing along with lyrics on the screen, i would feel very strange being in a worship experience where other people knew the words and were singing & i had no choice but to be left out (it’s happened to me several times when i’ve visited a more traditional church). plus, seeing the words allows everyone to process what they’re singing, it grounds us in thinking about the object of our worship.

Both Crowder and Phillips are awesome… I really liked the Fleece song on Sunday.

OK THIS SOOO BUGS ME!!! Why is it that whenever (or should i say most cases) that the whole “concept” behind worship is “it’s not a concert” and “it’s all for an audience of one” (which i agree with on that last part). This is incredibly annoying and frustrating because then musicians are forced to ahve that mentatlity where we have to “hold back” because it’s not a concert. EXCUSE ME BUT WHERE DOES IT SAY IN THE BIBLE THAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO KEEP OURSELVES FROM FULLY WORSHIPING IN TRUTH AND SPIRIT!?!? For me playing music is my spiritual gift and I put my heart and soul into it every sunday i’m up there and hold nothing back. BUT I’M NOT DOING THAT TO IMPRESS (most concert situations that is the case), i’m doing so because that’s how i worship. So now that I’ve got that off my chest, i’m glad that that the journey has always been a place where i’ve been able to worship freely without any restraints. This is something that I will always miss about you guys.

A few here are sort of requesting some balance… because it IS church (ie that there should be some group-singing at some sort of regular frequency). But then I hear a lot of Christians here saying that weird, and artistic, and no lyrics on the screen, and just going for it has some sort of appeal… If you were to be in charge of the whole Sunday AM - keeping in mind the purpose and vision of the church - how and where would your program “weird artsy” and where would you program “happy clappy lyrical sing along?”

Andy, heres my input. I love singing along. In fact without it i wonder if i’m needed to worship God since those on the stage are doing it all (chris i’m not saying that you should EVER hold back the ability that God gave you, i’m saying that if the band doesn’t invite us to join them to worship i feel left out of all the fun :). So, yes i need that “sing-along” aspect. (probably has a lot to do with the fact that i grew up with all that) But I see that your goal and desire is to do something that isn’t weird for those who don’t regularly attend church, so to that i had to stop and think.

I started by wondering how they did it back in the day, when the church first started with paul and peter and such, it was a random tangent, but it got me thinking. wouldn’t be cool if we could try and recreate a tabernacle worship time or early church? ok that was way random. (do not judge my ideas by this one )

hmmmm, how would church look if we could combine those two things?…My initial reaction is no words up. Meaning go with the artsy songs and mixed in well with more familiar songs but done artsy enough that the two aren’t in huge contrast to each other. With out the words it would begin to take on a “concert” effect but if songs are repeated often ppl get to know them and don’t necessarily need the words. now, i know there is a lot wrong with my suggestion. in fact i have about five arguments against them, but i know ya’ll want to pick it apart, so go for it :).

my second reaction is to say that i don’t think there is a way to do it that will please everyone. i mean you could skillfully create a worship experience with all the artsy songs and message and then at the end have a worship set more geared for the sing-along ppl, but then i know there are weeks we want ppl to walk away thinking about what we talked about not the last song and how much it rocked.

So my final reaction is, The Journey Rocks! There is no way to do make it perfect for each person each sunday. So, we take one path one sunday and the next we try something a little different. So, Andy, my conclusion is if was in charge of sunday am, we’d all be screwed! No, really glad i tried to think this through, this is hard!

Vanessa, you rock so much more than i give you credit for!!!! So props to you and your team!!!!!!

this could be cheating since I AM in charge most weeks of this sort of thing.. HAHA

but… i remember going to a little church downtown several years before I was a Christian because some friends invited me to listen to a special concert type thing they were doing that morning. some of it was sing-along style and some was just sitting and listening. i had to leave early, and as i walked down the stairs of that little church i couldn’t for the life of me figure out why i wanted to cry. i felt different. sitting and listening to the message of those songs did something for me. i had no idea why it moved me so much. but i loved it.

years after that, i attended the River infrequently as a spectator [def not a christian] and i would just sit and listen to the worship songs. i didn’t care or know about theology or whatever… i just thought the band was good and i liked the melodies. so in that sense even the sing-along type of songs were washing over me. i enjoyed sitting and listening.

similarly, i LOVE when we have guest leaders or artists who play original tunes for us. hearing the story behind their songs is often times poignant, funny, or powerful. not to mention it draws me into what they are experiencing of God and i get some insight into who they are…very cool.

as far as where it fits… i am personally moved when a song really speaks to what we’re learning or experiencing as a group. after participating [through singing, talking, listening to the speaker go on and on and on ;)] i’m generally ready to just listen and receive.