First Born

I think we should be resolute about calling people to firm levels of commitment to the logistics and ministries of the Journey. Especially the logistics because often, using your gifts in ministry is fun. Schlepping boxes and cables and speakers and programs and cleaning isn’t.

I am artless when it comes to enticing people to do things that initially look unpleasant, so I have no ideas as to how to get people involved. I just think involvement should be assumed and that we all convey that ethic to each other: if you’re coming to the Journey, you’re actively involved, especially in some aspect of the physcial logistics of setting up and tearing down. If you’re a regular attender, it’s not just your presence that is desired, but also your time, your sweat, your labor. I’m not exactly the strongest dude out there and I basically hate doing manual labor stuff. But being part of the Journey means seeing Sunday not just as a service to be consumed but one that is created.

And I have to ask the hard question: If someone wants to come to the Journey and just consume religious services but not contribute back, do we really want them in our church? I know this sounds harsh but Jesus did this many times. To the rich young ruler, he said: sell everything you have. He said let the dead bury their own dead. The disciples dropped their careers in order to be apprentices to Jesus.

Jesus drew clear lines in the sand, knowing that some (many?) wouldn’t cross them. He valued pursuit of the kingdom more than merely adding bodies to his group.

So yes, I think we build the expectation that if you’re coming to Sunday morning, you’re involved in the whole ministry: logistics, small groups, service of some sort to others, fellowship, etc. If we allow people to cherry pick what they want and don’t want to be involved in, we will be drinking spiritual Jamba Juice: thick, tasty fruit drinks that are a little heavier than milk but not the spiritual meat our souls need to grow.

As an aside (and yes it is true: I am incapable of short answers to simple questions), I believe that the level of spiritual maturity in America is relatively low. We typically view our relationships with God as primarily a behavioral thing: do the list of things on the Do list; don’t do the things on the Don’t Do list. We are little more than religious behavioralists, with our snappy lists of how to be like this or how to not be like that. It sells books and puts butts in seminars, but I don’t think it does much to lead people into progressive levels of spiritual depth.

But maybe many people in churches today don’t want to be bothered with maturity in Christ. Maybe they want to consume religious services with minimal life interruption. As Johnny Cash sang on U2’s Zooropa:

I stopped outside a church house
Where the citizens like to sit
They say they want the kingdom
But they don’t want God in it

I think we should not fear commitment to the Journey. Ultimately, we want to arouse people’s desire to love God and to call them to relationship with him and his people. Part of that commitment is to a local body of believers. I do not believe it is tenable to allow people to commit to God without committing to the people of a local body of disciples.

I believe in God because every once in a while, I hear a voice that says, “You’re my favorite.”

Ok, so I have to challenge back, at least a little. I agree that people should be using their talents, but what if for some reason they’re in a place where God needs them to be doing something that’s not Journey-related as their ministry? Or what if someone comes seeking spiritual solace? Are we going to tell them “Sure, we’ll pray for you, just as soon as you go outside and sit at the connect table” for a while? I’m actually behind the general idea that you have, but I’m very much of the opinion that it needs to be an individual thing, and that some people might not be in a place where they can serve, for whatever reason. On the other hand, if there are people who need to be challenged, we definately shouldn’t shy away from the possibility of offending or prodding them a little, to get them to serve or take the next step. I’m just saying that we need to be careful about who and when this kind of push gets done.

-T
What if we’re just figments of God’s imagination?

Valid concerns.

I have no neat and tidy solution. My labor and talents are committed mostly to Journey but we tithe to other organizations besides Journey and that goes to your point. Namely, that a person’s resources can be used in places other than Journey.

So, what your observations might point to is that people need to be aware of who is sponging off and consuming without contributing. This means we actually have to know each other.

And it also means we will probably always have people just consuming.

And it means its a judgment call.

It really irks me when I can’t have things happen in the world the way I want them to. [officially pouting]

I believe in God because every once in a while, I hear a voice that says, “You’re my favorite.”