God and Jesus
Today in church we talked about the recent beliefs survey and who we thinks Jesus is. The general consensus was that Jesus is “A human ‘incarnation’ of God himself—Jesus is divine and is God.” I believe this as well but am getting hung up on the God/Jesus distinction. Why the different names? Why don’t we just say we worship God, and leave it at that, since Jesus=God? Is this just an artifact of our efforts to distinguish ourselves from Christians who don’t believe Jesus=God? When I hear people say, “I love Jesus” or “Jesus is my savior” or “I give my life to Jesus” it makes me think Jesus is separate and distinct from God and is the one we’re supposed to worship, but that is backwards, so does saying these things about Jesus just mean one is saying them about God? And if that’s the case, can I just call Him JeGod, or GodUs, or … JoeBob? I know God came to us in the human form of Jesus, and we need to recognize the significance of that, but shouldn’t Jesus then be more of a verb than a noun? Like, “And then God Jesused us and we were all saved” or “We are connected to God because of the Jesusing he conducted.” It seems like we are giving Him a separate name for a specific thing he did for us, and that seems weird. Jesus is God doing something for us, not Jesus doing something for us while God kicks back and watches. Right?
Man Oh Man
This is great! I love it. You got me reading my 15 min. this morning and this is what I read.
1 John 5
Faith in the Son of God
1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
6This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9We accept man’s testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
Concluding Remarks
13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.
16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
18We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. 19We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
Thanks sista for helping me learn something new today.
Frank
Triune God
Leah,
Sorry, I’m afraid I don’t follow the distinction you are drawing about making a distinction. As Colossians 1:15 says, Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God. To know what God is like, all we have to do is look at Jesus. This answers a multitude of questions. (But don’t be fooled by our culture into thinking Jesus is nice and plays by our rules.)
That said,
Is it the idea of one God, three Persons that confuses you?
http://jonreid.blogs.com/
Most complex
Wow.. .I love this discussion.. and Leah.. .love the way you asked your questions!
Understanding the concept of the Trinity is the most complex theological issue we have. (makes sense that we would have a hard time understanding God… if we didn’t… that would tell you something!)
The reason we call Jesus - Jesus is because that is what we find in the Bible… the identification of 3 unique and separate “beings” - that are all one. The Holy Spirit is also a “person” - who is separate from the Father and Son, but still ONE with them. Jesus said, “you have seen me then you have seen the Father - for I and the Father are one.
Then as Jesus’ baptism you have the person of Jesus in the water, the person of the Father calling out this is my Son, and then The Holy Spirit showing up in the form of a dove.
ready to dig more…
http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html?mai...
Faith
Dr. Kent Leinberger — “So then, Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word (Logos) of God” Romans 10:17 Very dear Jon Reid, you have posted a number of comments “Still Waiting” and et cetera relative to a missional church. While I do understand a little bit about where YOU are coming from, I must say that a CHURCH (let’s not get into institutionalized denominational politics and bureaurcracies) a CHURCH consists of individual believers gathering to worship and learn, of course, but a missional CHURCH derives from each individual member’s willingness to impact neighbors, co-workers, colleagues, family, and friends.
There is so much that goes on behind the scenes events, responses, a simple word of encouragement, and the like. These things Our triune God both sees and records. Others of us never know about many of these “opportunities” that our Brothers and Sisters in Christ encounter and ACT upon.
Miracles happen everyday — witness the Birth of a Child — and believing Parents embarking of the Journey to “Raise up a child in the way he/she should go; and when he/she is old he/she will NOT depart from it” Proverbs 22:6 Church, Why Bother? Then, what is JourneyLand all about? Further why did God give Moses the Fifth Commandment? Answer: Because this was a Priestly duty to establish nuturing family relationships, as well, as part of the Lord’s economic plan.
I haven’t had an opportunity to view the Survey Results, but I am quite sure that such a forum provides additional support for the Journey’s Mission as a Missional CHURCH.
With my very kind regards
Moving to other topic
(Replying over on So, Now What?)
http://jonreid.blogs.com/
the trinity
There is a book out, called The Shack, it gives a fictional account of ones mans encounter with God. I love the way it deals with the Trinity. It speaks in wonderful poetic language about a deep theological concept.
And Leah, interesting about you seeing Jesus as a verb. When you read the bible in Spanish it says in the begiining was the ‘Verbo” the word for verb, not ‘palabra’ the word for word. That made me check back, in the orginal language God was a verb - not a noun! So = great observation!
I loved this one
I always learn so much thanks.
DAWN E. WORSWICK
RESCUEACHILD
Missing pieces
After reading everyone’s responses, I was still at a loss as to the answer to my question. Then Joel referred me to John 1, and everything started to fall into place. Frank, you talked about Jesus being the “Son of God,” and Jon, you included a diagram of the trinity. Jeff, you mentioned the three “beings,” which are separate but are still one. Jaclyn, you referenced “the Word,” or in Spanish, what is actually “the verb,” but I didn’t know how any of this fit together until I read John 1, which begins, “1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.” I understand now that this is referencing Jesus and can be read as “In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God.” Jesus, being God, was, is and always will be—he did not begin to exist only when he arrived on earth, just as his coming to earth was not the beginning of God. John 1 later states, “18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.” All of this means that, while the complete trinity of God may not be “visible” to us, 1) Jesus, who we have seen, is God, and 2) the term God, representing someone whom possibly we are incapable of seeing in His entirety, encompasses Jesus. The part I was missing is that 3) “The Father” is God. John 1 says that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father, which I originally interpreted to mean “the right hand of God,” which suggests that Jesus is distinct from God, and not God, but this is not actually the case; Jesus (the Son) is distinct from the Father. Yes, both the Son and the Father are ultimately God, but the Father is not the Son. And then that’s the whole trinity part, which I can accept on faith even though I don’t necessarily understand it fully. But the Son and the Father sit next to each other within their Godliness, if you will.
I don’t know if this is coming across the way I want it to, but I guess what I’m trying to say, and what you guys had been trying to say, is that Jesus is a distinct “entity” (or representation?) of God, not distinct from God (but distinct from the other two representations of God). Am I close?
-Leah
Mornings would be great if they came later in the day
You are close when....
You are close when you are continuing to try. Keep learning about your faith. I once heard from an OLD wise Pastor that said,” There is nothing worse than a stupid Christian”. What he ment was someone who calls themselves a Christian and stands up for themselves in a debate and can’t back it up because they haven’t spent the time to learn about thier faith and ends up looking kind of silly. So my dear sister what you are doing is the best thing ever. you are digging into your faith. Try this, SOAP 1. Scrpture 2. Observation 3. Application 4. Prayer. If you use these steps while figuring things out it just starts to become a little more clear. This is how it is for me anyway and I hope it does for you too. Don’t stop digging into your faith. Learn and grow. You go girl!!!
~Frank
God and Jesus
Dr. Kent Leinberger: Dearest
FlyAwayPegasus, Your comments are exceedingly wonderful. Of course, understanding all of the implications of the Trinity and/or the Tri-Une God are quite complicated for our finite human minds to comprehend; however, you are very well along the WAY to a spiritual understanding, which goes way beyond our finite minds to understand. Isn’t Our God Totally Amazing, when we ask HE delivers.For additional insight check out 1 Corinthians 3:1-2. KJV and disregard the very last sentence because, you are beyond Milk and definitely into Meat.
May God Bless You and Your Family Always and in all ways!
Thanks Kent! -Leah Mornings
Thanks Kent!
-Leah
Mornings would be great if they came later in the day
Implications to consider
Leah, way to connect the dots!
“Doctrines” aren’t of much use if they’re just definitions or treated as tests of correctness. The real fun begins when you start asking questions along the lines of “If that’s true, how should we live?”
http://jonreid.blogs.com/